Talk:Out-of-copyright maps

UK OS Seventh Series

Just a quick sanity check: the OS Seventh Series are gradually coming out of copyright? They were published between 1953 and 1973 approximately. At the time of writing (2007) we can use maps published 1956 and before?

This seems to be a big improvement on the new popular addition (NPE) which was published 1945 to 1956 (approx).

Useful catalogue of NPE and Seventh Series maps

--TimSC 20:43, 17 May 2007 (BST)

Yes, that's correct, and a few of us are collecting 7th Series maps. But don't get too hung up on how much better the 7th Series are. The earliest ones (i.e. those which are now out of copyright) aren't actually that different to NPE. It's only as the series developed that things like rights of way started to be marked. --Richard 22:54, 17 May 2007 (BST)

1:10,000 1950-55 London Maps

Hi................ I am looking for any 1:10,000 (six inch to one mile) maps of central london (Regents Park to Tower Bridge) dating from about 1950-55. Does anyone have any idea where I should look - pjc (new member today) - 13:34, 26 May 2006

Welcome pjc! If you get hold of such a map, let us know (add details to the list on Out-of-copyright maps).

Looks like the best we have at the moment is 1933 map scanned by Richard, details of which are here (fully scanned and available for download) - Harry Wood 13:44, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi............ I have had a look at Richards map but there seems to be large chunks missing? pjc

Ah yeah you're right. I thought the download contained more scans, but it is only those squares shown on the index. You'll have to ask him to scan some more for you. I'd be interested to see a fully scanned map too, but don't know if many other poeple have exrpessed an interest. Guess it's quite a lot of effort hey Richard? -- Harry Wood 13:32, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

The whole map is scanned - use the torrent to get it. But the link shown in the '[1]' goes to a selection of squares georeferenced by Lester Caine, which as you've noticed are incomplete. If you want the whole lot (and aren't too bothered about the georeferencing) then go for the torrent! --Richard 19:15, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

London A-Z

A copy of the London A-Z would clearly be very useful. Googling reveals that the original London A-Z was produced in 1936 - 70 years ago, therefore it might expire at the end of this year. On the other hand Phyllis Pearsall, who concieved it and founded the Geographer's A-Z map company, only died in 1996. Does anyone know whether the copyright of the first map was with Phyllis or the company, and if it was transferred from her to the company, what effect would that have on the time of expiry?

There's one person that I have a great deal of respect for. Phyllis noticed a need to produce a certain type of map and went out and surveyed the streets herself. Welshie 17:01, 19 Jul 2006 (BST)

It looks like the 1936 version was produced by her and one draughsman, so will be author copyright (life+70). The Geographers' Map Company was founded between the production of the first map, and the printing of it. So, any versions after the first edition ought to have been copyright the company, and only subject to 70 years copyright from the publication year. Does anyone know what the next edition was? --Gagravarr 08:54, 20 Jul 2006 (BST)

Richard seems to thing that they were based on OS data, so only under a OS 50 year copyright (since they're a derived work). That would mean we could use maps from the early 50s, which probably have a better detail than the NPE maps we already have. We'd just need confirmation that they were a derived work though. --Gagravarr 14:39, 15 September 2006 (BST)

To clarify a little, I think the original A-Z contains copyrighted material by both Phyllis Pearsall (aka Mrs A-Z) and the Ordnance Survey. This, AIUI, makes it very unlikely to be copyrighted for 70 years' after the author's death - it's a work of multiple authorship and therefore copyrighted for 70 years after the year of creation. However, I doubt that the presence of OS material would shorten this to 50 years. So we're ok with the 1936 map, but probably not the 1950s ones. --Richard 19:42, 17 September 2006 (BST)

Ah, that does make more sense. Now, does anyone know how to identify which year an A-Z map was published in, when it's listed on ebay for a couple of quid? (I can't see anything on the history page which shows how to identify the year/era from eg the cover or the price) --Gagravarr 23:53, 17 September 2006 (BST)

For specific years, I usually date old maps by means of major civil engineering projects (new railway lines and stations, bypasses, etc.). You can get a very rough feel from railway ownership (which will date a map as pre-1923, 1923-1948, or post-1948) and typography (Gill Sans is a dead giveaway that it's 1930s or later, and the cover of eBay item 290029443348 is clearly post-war). But not all of this may be apparent from an eBay listing. I've just posted Nick Hill my 1930s ABC street atlas which he's planning to rescan and use as a base. --Richard 07:33, 18 September 2006 (BST)

I suppose the only other option is to go to the Bod Map Room and try to find your map in their collection, which they should've dated nicely when they received it. I wonder how long that'd take per map? --Gagravarr 10:57, 18 September 2006 (BST)

Looks like we were wrong. Phyllis didn't die until 1996, so the early maps will remain copyrighted until 2066! Gagravarr 13:00, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

UK - lack of work-for-hire fixed term

Quoting a friendly lawyer: "Yup, section 12(8)(a)(i) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act states that for literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works having multiple authors, the term of protection is 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the last surviving author passes away. There are no alterations of the term."

So there's no shorter, fixed term for works done as work-for-hire like there is in the states, so it's still (longest surviving) life+70 :(

However that can still be shorter than the 95 year term: it is for any works made in the last 25 years of an author's life. David Newton 14:55, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe this is the case. You're only describing the case where there are multiple known authors. If a "work for hire" does not explicitly name authors, they are unknown!

As a practical example, I cite the National Library of Scotland's coverage of 1930s Bartholomew mapping of Scotland here. The copyright on these scans is listed as being owned by the NLS, without any attribution to Collins Bartholomew (the current owners), but the most recent one is dated 1935, which would appear to cover the "70 years after the end of the year of publication" rule. I would assume that a legal deposit library has sufficient expertise in the relevant areas of the law behind it to consider these things! --Ritchie333 12:42, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

German topo maps at Geogreif

Can somone comment the 1:25000 Topo maps from all over Germany from Geogreif project which can be found here? Can and how can they be used for OSM? The ones I have seen are dated shortly after 1900... --Rotbarsch 13:25, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Hi Rotbarsch, German Urheberrecht does not distinguish between state or private persons (apart from laws, bylaws, etc, see §5). IANAL but I'd say that you have to be reasonably sure that all contributors to a certain map have to be dead for at least 70 years, which means the map would have to be 120 years old at least. Ipofanes 21:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Soviet/Russian Topographic Maps

Why do you think that these maps are not protected by copyright? --Dezhin 20:06, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

1920s Ministry of Transport Road Map (half inch)

Hi everyone,

I am in the process of collecting high quality scans of the half-inch to a mile Ministry of Transport Road Maps that were published by the Ordnance Survey between 1923 and 1932 that may then be used for tiling. Since they were published by the OS on behalf of the MoT, they come under Crown Copyright and hence are now all out of copyright.

The National Archives at Kew has precisely one copy (Sheet 33 : Basingstoke & Winchester - front cover scan here) which I have ordered a full size TIFF scan for, and the remainder can be found at the British Library (index here), which I will hopefully be able to gain scans of (though since these are typically around £15 - £20 a map, don't expect me to get them all overnight!)

The reason these are particularly interesting is that they show the complete and original set of road numbers as allocated by the MoT, which have substantial differences to the New Popular and Seventh Series (eg: A4 terminating at Bath, A604 terminating at Huntingdon, A42 running between Reading and Birmingham)

Is anyone interested in these for tiles? --Ritchie333 08:39, 8 April 2010 (UTC)