Humanitarian OSM Team/Chat May 23 2012

HOT Chat on May 23rd 2012

Topics

• Camp Roberts mapping tasks
• Task Manager in general
• Harry's geomob talk
• quick mention of Senegal
• icons for Hospitals

IRC log:

23:53 harry-wood: We have a HOT chat here in T minus 7 minutes
23:53 : oeon1 [~Adium@68-189-119-178.static.snlo.ca.charter.com] entered the room.
23:58 : oeon left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
23:59 aude: hi harry-wood
23:59 harry-wood: hi aude
23:59 harry-wood: HOT chat time in T minus 1 minute!
00:00 : Thursday, 24 May 2012
00:00 harry-wood: uploads
00:00 harry-wood: So! What's happening HOTties?
00:00 harry-wood: How are you doing aude?
00:01 harry-wood: Do we mkl here this evening?
00:01 aude: harry-wood: busy but good!
00:02 harry-wood: Yeah I've been too busy lately. Couldn't take part in the refugee camp sketching exercise until just now
00:02 harry-wood: You had a go at it?
00:02 aude: i can't do much until july
00:03 aude: unfortunately, but then i'll have free time :)
00:03 mkl: my first HOT chat
00:03 harry-wood: welcome mkl
00:04 aude: mkl: how's korea?
00:04 harry-wood: as you can see it's pretty HOT
00:04 mkl: excellent
00:04 aude: nice :)
00:04 mkl: lots of interest here ... hoping Tim O'Reilly will write a piece on the refugee camp mapping
00:04 harry-wood: did we have springmeyer here too?
00:05 harry-wood: Did people split evenly between working on different tasks?
00:05 harry-wood: I just picked the first one on the list. Hagadera
00:07 harry-wood: Annoying highway=footpath vs path tagging inconsistency
00:08 : larryone left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
00:09 aude: i'm trying the task
00:09 harry-wood: Also I suspect the paths data that's being added is not really very meaningful a lot of the time anyway. Trying to spot paths between buildings in the imagery, but mostly there's just haphazard gaps between buildings, sometimes forming something looking a bit like path
00:09 mkl: i showed the tasking manager to some folks here, and had lots of feedback
00:09 harry-wood: oh yeah?
00:10 mkl: looked at it with beginners eyes ... even i had a little trouble following what to do
00:10 mkl: so filed a bunch of tickets
00:10 aude: hmm...
00:11 harry-wood: My main problem every time is getting imagery URLs to work. even after doing this so many times, I tend to get the red ERROR tiles of death on first attempt and have to figure out what I did wrong
00:12 mkl: https://github.com/pgiraud/OSMTM/issues
00:12 mkl: yes ... it's supposed to be automatic in josm ... soon
00:12 mkl: but not available in potlatch
00:13 mkl: was thinking of asking for that api, but not on the potlatch-dev list
00:13 harry-wood: automatic in what way? part of the remote control mechanism?
00:13 mkl: right
00:13 harry-wood: would be neat
00:13 Schuyler: hello.
00:13 mkl: so i think it's sorted: https://github.com/pgiraud/OSMTM/issues/63
00:14 Schuyler: have you guys spent much time mapping buildings?
00:14 Schuyler: I started on buildings in the south end of Ifo and got bored.
00:14 harry-wood: lfo?
00:14 harry-wood: I've done a LOT of Padang buidlings
00:14 harry-wood: …it's boring yah :-)
00:16 harry-wood: But then most imagery sketching is boring once you get into the rhythm of it, but boring a relaxing kind of way. Nice to do while watching TV on an evening if you want to switch off
00:16 edvac: We were supposed to trace ways only
00:17 aude: especially for buildings, i think the grid size is pretty big
00:17 harry-wood: yeah for these refugee camp exercises, we're not aiming for buildings
00:18 aude: i suppose we don't have to finish and can unlock it
00:18 aude: or come back later
00:18 harry-wood: Padang squares would take me about an hour
00:19 aude: ok
00:19 harry-wood: looks like these are slightly less than that, just to try to add all these paths
00:19 aude: i'd be happy with smaller squares but whatever there is okay
00:20 Schuyler: I think I need a proper mouse to trace buildings is what it is.
00:20 aude: smaller chunks of time but still be able to help
00:21 harry-wood: Schuyler… hell yes. It would quickly drive me nuts not having a proper mouse for this
00:21 aude: of course, if it's a urgent crisis, people can give more time
00:21 aude: or bigger chunks of time
00:22 mkl: yea, but buildings don't hurt, right?
00:22 mkl: it would be nice to some way tag what you in fact finished on the grid square ... just roads. or also buildings etc
00:22 aude: mkl: agree
00:23 mkl: or perhaps links to the relevant changesets
00:23 harry-wood: If you put in buildings in a funny little patch it can make the map coverage very inconsistent
00:23 mkl: could then just grab the comments and tags from the changesets
00:23 mkl: well that's ok i think ... utlimately, the rendering and extraction could be tailored
00:24 mkl: so only when buildings are at a certain level of completion, export buildings in shapefiles for responders
00:24 harry-wood: I think the task description should always be quite precise about what kind of thing we're asking people to add
00:24 harry-wood: That way there's no ambiguity and we can aim to do a first pass getting everything up to roughly the same level
00:25 mkl: sure ... but is it bad to do more than expected?
00:25 aude: maybe
00:25 aude: i can see getting the roads in first and then come back and do more detail in a square
00:25 mkl: added another issue request
00:25 mkl: https://github.com/pgiraud/OSMTM/issues/72
00:26 mkl: pierre is gonna kill me :0
00:26 harry-wood: hehehe
00:27 mkl: i guess i agree ... multipass would be good
00:27 harry-wood: yeah because consistency is a major problem with the tasking manager
00:27 mkl: another issue i added ... would be cool to show before/after/change visualization https://github.com/pgiraud/OSMTM/issues/71
00:27 mkl: harry-wood: would some kind of analysis help
00:28 mkl: after a task is submitted, tasking manager could look at the data submitted for that area, generate some stats, and give a score
00:28 harry-wood: It's always a problem with map collaboration, but without the tasking manager there's a bit more intermingling of mapping ideas, so things get smoothed over more
00:28 harry-wood: with this there's funny squares of differentness in the map data
00:28 aude: right
00:28 aude: remembers just picking random spots in haiti to map
00:29 harry-wood: We need the "power users" to go over the resulting data and smooth it over a bit. I've done some of that in Padang, but there's lots more to do
00:30 aude: nods
00:30 mkl: that's the point of the second check, right?
00:30 mkl: but no one seems to like that as much as the first round
00:31 mkl: i really think some analysis would help speed that part up and make it more interesting
00:31 harry-wood: well second check is good for finding some squares which were done badly
00:31 harry-wood: (e.g. by somebody learning for the first time or something)
00:31 harry-wood: But in Padang there was also strange things like major road being all screwed up while people focus on the buildings
00:32 harry-wood: problems which you spot by taking a step back and ignoring the grid
00:32 mkl: reminds me of firefishy's tile hack ... OpenEverythingMap?
00:33 harry-wood: OpenWhateverMap.org
00:34 Schuyler: mkl: Pierre is going to be glad that someone is using his baby
00:34 mkl: i know, just kidding
00:34 harry-wood: I want to help him code it, but python is one language too many to try to hold in my head right now
00:35 : You have disconnected
00:35 : You have connected
00:35 : The topic for #hot is: Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
00:35 harry-wood: (At work I'm switching between objective c and ruby on rails. Doing my head in)
00:36 mkl: "back in my day, javascript only ran on the browser"
00:36 mkl: old guy coders
00:37 harry-wood: Did you guys see I presented at geomob the other night?
00:37 mkl: btw, saw a sneak preview of ushahidi's new tiles
00:37 harry-wood: Put my new slide deck here: http://www.harrywood.co.uk/blog/2012/05/22/hot-geomob
00:37 mkl: they'll be switching, with custom osm maps
00:37 mkl: cool, how'd it go
00:37 aude: mkl: very very nice
00:37 harry-wood: featuring a blurry photo of you mkl http://www.harrywood.co.uk/blog/2012/05/22/hot-geomob/#slide7
00:38 mkl: i remember that, was just after the quake
00:38 mkl: i discovered this week that 4636 also started with someone tweeting
00:39 mkl: yea, slides 8-12 ... should be an automated feature of task manager
00:39 Schuyler: well done, Harry
00:39 mkl: hippy nonsense! what's wrong with hippy nonsense? ;)
00:39 : pierzen [~chatzilla@216.144.126.194] entered the room.
00:39 : Guest3311 left the room (quit: Read error: Operation timed out).
00:40 mkl: yea, these are great slides, will want to borrow sometime
00:40 mkl: why not post on the HOT blog?
00:41 harry-wood: I could post a summary there
00:41 mkl: i'm overdue to post something myself ... the Harvard Humanitarian Institute simulation last month used OSM
00:42 harry-wood: keep forgetting I need to write a description of myself for a mugshots page
00:43 harry-wood: did you do that yet Schuyler? Am I the last one
00:44 : jeremyb left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
00:45 : wonderchook [~wondercho@c-69-255-180-22.hsd1.va.comcast.net] entered the room.
00:45 mkl: we got excited about badges again here
00:46 harry-wood: badges!
00:46 mkl: like someone who took part in an activation, could get a badge on their osm profile
00:46 edvac: Does anybody know if the Humanitarian Information Unit of the USG has already an opinion about the Camp Roberts exercise?
00:46 : AndrewBuck left the room (quit: resistance.oftc.net weber.oftc.net).
00:46 mkl: i think they are stoked?
00:46 mkl: official government position: it rocks
00:47 : aude left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
00:47 harry-wood: hehe
00:47 mkl: wonderchook would know better, she's been there in person
00:47 edvac: I'm glad to hear (read) that!
00:47 : Cyrille37 [~5a5490ad@shenron.openstreetmap.org] entered the room.

00:47 harry-wood: regarding badges… We have this wiki template to go on user pages:

	Humanitarian OSM Team volunteers at Humanitarian OSM Team.

00:47 wonderchook: mkl: yeah people are excited
00:47 wonderchook: I'm hunting down HIU to do a blog post on Friday
00:48 wonderchook: it might take a couple days to come out since government folks have to get things approved
00:48 wonderchook: I'm putting together some stats
00:48 wonderchook: harry-wood: yeah but maybe doing one by activation could be cool
00:49 harry-wood: Doing one as part of the task manager would work quite nicely
00:49 mkl: we could get this into the user pages
00:49 wonderchook: yeah there are a bunch of feature requests for the tasking manager
00:50 wonderchook: getting more developers started would be good
00:50 harry-wood: there are indeed
00:50 harry-wood: we were talking about that earlier
00:50 wonderchook: someone is working on a dev VM similar to OSMDev box
00:50 harry-wood: mkl has been added more bugs :-)
00:50 wonderchook: well that someone is the person that did osmdevbox
00:53 : AndrewBuck [~kvirc@71-38-41-128.frgo.qwest.net] entered the room.
00:53 harry-wood: wonderchook I'm working on a task right now
00:54 wonderchook: cool, we are leaving it open until the collection is done=)
00:54 oeon1: nice^
00:54 harry-wood: wondering about some data which is source=SPOT CNES
00:54 harry-wood: seems less accurate
00:54 edvac: So that means... how many days, wonderchook?
00:54 : oeon1 is now known as oeon
00:54 wonderchook: the SPOT stuff is from previous mapping
00:55 pierzen: It seems it was mapped a year ago.
00:55 wonderchook: edvac: I don't know, I would think at least until next week
00:55 edvac: ok
00:55 harry-wood: ok. I shall refine accuracy based on NextView, and drop that tag
00:55 pierzen: This is what i did.
00:56 Schuyler: harry-wood: I forgot, too
00:56 harry-wood: yeah. sorry about forgetting wonderchook
00:57 wonderchook: forgot?
00:57 harry-wood: bio & mugshot
00:58 wonderchook: oh yeah, I was going to send guilty emails at the end of the week
00:58 : Cyrille37 left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
00:58 mkl: innocent
01:01 harry-wood: I wonder if anyone had any questions about http://hot.openstreetmap.org/updates/2012-05-14_update_from_hots_strategic_planning_meeting our strategic decisions
01:02 mkl: we are completely trusted apparently
01:03 harry-wood: nothing came up on the mailing list about it either hey?
01:03 wonderchook: nope
01:03 wonderchook: did anyone mention Senegal
01:03 wonderchook: that HOT started working there this week?
01:05 harry-wood: no we didn't chat about Senegal
01:05 harry-wood: any news?
01:05 harry-wood: Nico is there now?
01:05 wonderchook: Nico, Will and Stephane are there now
01:05 wonderchook: well at least Nico and Will, I think Stephane arrives today
01:07 mkl: lesson: we should post a photocopy of the HOT credit card on the site, just in case someone needs it
01:07 wonderchook: they'll be there for another 2.5 weeks
01:08 wonderchook: mkl: I'm confused by this comment
01:09 mkl: it's an attempt at jetlagged humor
01:09 wonderchook: ah okay
01:09 mkl: meaning that would have helped Stephane
01:09 wonderchook: =)
01:10 wonderchook: well, everytime Nico uses my card from France it gets shutdown
01:10 wonderchook: I got him his own now
01:10 wonderchook: BB&T didn't require a social security number
01:12 wonderchook: in other news, it would be good to figure out an international symbol for hospital that is not a violation of the Geneva convention
01:12 wonderchook: no ideas so far though
01:12 mkl: yea, for real
01:13 wonderchook: I saw the Red Cross guys yesterday
01:13 wonderchook: they didn't have a good suggestion
01:13 mkl: that's lame
01:13 mkl: they should at least have a backup for the rest of us
01:15 wonderchook: well the issue is usually you don't show a hospital map at a global level
01:15 wonderchook: so there are plenty of ones that work in areas/regions/countries
01:15 wonderchook: but not one that works for all
01:15 mkl: right
01:15 mkl: we need regionalized mapnik rendering
01:15 mkl: maybe that will end up being easier than coming up with a global symbol :)
01:16 harry-wood: Well the MapBox guys have done that for transport symbology
01:16 edvac: Maybe putting amenity=hospital + symbol=whatever?
01:17 harry-wood: Ah yeah good point. The transport symbology probably is tag dependant (network tag)
01:17 mkl: it looks really nice btw
01:18 harry-wood: I found a hospital in the U.S. which wasn't brought in my GNIS imports… must be new
01:18 harry-wood: I only know it's a hospital because in the imagery here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=35.414332&lon=-99.424638&zoom=18&layers=M
01:18 harry-wood: …massive cross!
01:19 harry-wood: Is this policy for new hospitals now? Could have practical use for disaster response mapping!
01:20 wonderchook: technical it violates the geneva convention to put a cross on a non-Red Cross hospital
01:20 wonderchook: so no;)
01:20 mkl: this dang geneva convention!
01:21 wonderchook: and don't forgot UK and US Copyright!
01:21 wonderchook: wooo
01:21 : CanoeBerry left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
01:22 : edvac left the room (quit: Quit: Abandonando).
01:23 wonderchook: apparently copyright scared people off;)
01:23 wonderchook: so I got accepted to AdaCamp: http://dc.adacamp.org/
01:24 wonderchook: which will go towards my goal of getting more diversity in HOT
01:25 harry-wood: D'you get to turn them all into mappers?
01:26 wonderchook: well, that is always my secret plan;)
01:26 wonderchook: I suppose it isn't really secret
01:26 mkl: you'll be happy to hear that i improved the gender balance of my presentation
01:30 harry-wood: your presentation has a gender?
01:34 mkl: well pictures of mappers
01:34 mkl: first version was all dude
01:35 wonderchook: yeah my Indonesia pictures are very gender balanced, except when we are with government village heads
01:37 mkl: i'm out ... thanks for my first hot chat
01:38 wonderchook: enjoy Seoul!
01:38 : jeremyb [~jeremyb@mail01.tuxmachine.com] entered the room.
01:38 : aude [~filbertkm@li137-250.members.linode.com] entered the room.
01:39 harry-wood: see you mkl
01:40 harry-wood: I'm off too I think